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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Officiating in women's basketball
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100%Cat
1/25/2018 8:22 AM
Curious question (I'm looking at you to answer, Jake Hromada), is there a reason why pushing off by a ball handler with their non-ball arm is never called in women's basketball? The last two Ohio home games I have seen some horrific, blatant arm-bars right in front of officials with nothing called. I don't believe I have ever seen it called in the women's game here, to be honest. I've seen Mike Laster be called multiple times this year for hooking/shielding a defender. Last night there was a ton of Northern players with chicken wings going down the lane, shoving defenders back, no calls. Is this a point of no emphasis at the women's game for some reason?
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BillyTheCat
1/25/2018 8:37 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Curious question (I'm looking at you to answer, Jake Hromada), is there a reason why pushing off by a ball handler with their non-ball arm is never called in women's basketball? The last two Ohio home games I have seen some horrific, blatant arm-bars right in front of officials with nothing called. I don't believe I have ever seen it called in the women's game here, to be honest. I've seen Mike Laster be called multiple times this year for hooking/shielding a defender. Last night there was a ton of Northern players with chicken wings going down the lane, shoving defenders back, no calls. Is this a point of no emphasis at the women's game for some reason?
Big difference in an arm bar and pushing off.
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100%Cat
1/25/2018 8:40 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Curious question (I'm looking at you to answer, Jake Hromada), is there a reason why pushing off by a ball handler with their non-ball arm is never called in women's basketball? The last two Ohio home games I have seen some horrific, blatant arm-bars right in front of officials with nothing called. I don't believe I have ever seen it called in the women's game here, to be honest. I've seen Mike Laster be called multiple times this year for hooking/shielding a defender. Last night there was a ton of Northern players with chicken wings going down the lane, shoving defenders back, no calls. Is this a point of no emphasis at the women's game for some reason?
Big difference in an arm bar and pushing off.
Arm extended/extending, pushing the defender off balance, no calls. Ever.
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BillyTheCat
1/25/2018 8:44 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Curious question (I'm looking at you to answer, Jake Hromada), is there a reason why pushing off by a ball handler with their non-ball arm is never called in women's basketball? The last two Ohio home games I have seen some horrific, blatant arm-bars right in front of officials with nothing called. I don't believe I have ever seen it called in the women's game here, to be honest. I've seen Mike Laster be called multiple times this year for hooking/shielding a defender. Last night there was a ton of Northern players with chicken wings going down the lane, shoving defenders back, no calls. Is this a point of no emphasis at the women's game for some reason?
Big difference in an arm bar and pushing off.
Arm extended/extending, pushing the defender off balance, no calls. Ever.
That’s better, that would not be an arm bar then 😎. That would be a push off. And I’ve seen it called at both Women’s games I’ve attended
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100%Cat
1/25/2018 9:06 AM
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
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BillyTheCat
1/25/2018 11:40 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
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Alan Swank
1/25/2018 12:00 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
As is over the back.
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bobcatsquared
1/25/2018 12:10 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
As is over the back.
Not if you gain an advantage by creating contact.
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Alan Swank
1/25/2018 12:20 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
As is over the back.
Not if you gain an advantage by creating contact.
My point is there is no such call as over the back. If you create contact it's pushing or shoving. It's amazing how may fans think that you can't go over someone's back to rebound a ball.
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bobcatsquared
1/25/2018 12:21 PM
Semantics.
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100%Cat
1/25/2018 12:44 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
I openly admit, I'm not an official, but I find it hard to accept it as legal when it's being used to knock a defender off balance and gain an advantage.
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UpSan Bobcat
1/25/2018 12:48 PM
As has been pointed out, a dribbler can shield defenders from the ball with his/her non-dribbling hand. It's only a foul if the arm is used to push. It is a hard call to make. It can be difficult to see if a player is pushing off or simply shielding the ball. Players get away with it on all levels of basketball.
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BillyTheCat
1/25/2018 12:49 PM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
I openly admit, I'm not an official, but I find it hard to accept it as legal when it's being used to knock a defender off balance and gain an advantage.
On offense an arm bar is perfectly legal as long as it is NOT used to create separation by pushing off and extending the arm. Which is a foul, and the act of extending the arm, makes this no longer an arm bar.

As for "over the back", there is NO such foul in basketball. And that is NOT an issue of semantics, that is simply a fact, that foul does not exist as a category.
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UpSan Bobcat
1/25/2018 12:53 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
As for "over the back", there is NO such foul in basketball. And that is NOT an issue of semantics, that is simply a fact, that foul does not exist as a category.
I think a lot of people say "over the back" when they really mean that someone is pushing someone or trying to go through their back to get a ball. There are other times when people seem to think simply reaching over someone to get a ball is a foul.
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BillyTheCat
1/25/2018 12:54 PM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
As for "over the back", there is NO such foul in basketball. And that is NOT an issue of semantics, that is simply a fact, that foul does not exist as a category.
There are other times when people seem to think simply reaching over someone to get a ball is a foul.

Most people I encounter fall into the latter of your two groups.
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jh25
1/25/2018 6:00 PM
My apologies 100%Cat, I'm a little late to the party. I haven't been on BA today, there's this thing called "class" that I, for whatever reason, have to attend... Sometimes it gets in the way of interacting with you all! It's a shame, isn't it?

I'd answer your question, but it seems to already be answered above. The arm-bar is a push-off the defender by the offensive player. It was described perfectly above. I have seen it a lot more this year from our girls, mainly from our guards who want to get underneath. I can ask Boldon and company about their thoughts when I see them tomorrow on the bus to Fiami (Fri the 26th).

However, I fear the main thing(s) about last night's game aren't being mentioned here, and it's the outcome of the game. All thanks to Cece Hooks' game-winning, "Steal. Drive. Basket!"

(See highlight here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1719776161377... )

Also, kudos to Katie Barker for a career-high 24 PTS off 8 three's, and Taylor Agler for her career-high 12 assists. She doesn't get enough credit, most underrated PG in the MAC.

(See recap here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1720400377981... )

Thanks for the S/O! Don't be a stranger, come say hi to us in press row.
Last Edited: 1/25/2018 6:07:19 PM by jh25
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100%Cat
1/26/2018 8:47 AM
jh25 wrote:expand_more
My apologies 100%Cat, I'm a little late to the party. I haven't been on BA today, there's this thing called "class" that I, for whatever reason, have to attend... Sometimes it gets in the way of interacting with you all! It's a shame, isn't it?

I'd answer your question, but it seems to already be answered above. The arm-bar is a push-off the defender by the offensive player. It was described perfectly above. I have seen it a lot more this year from our girls, mainly from our guards who want to get underneath. I can ask Boldon and company about their thoughts when I see them tomorrow on the bus to Fiami (Fri the 26th).

However, I fear the main thing(s) about last night's game aren't being mentioned here, and it's the outcome of the game. All thanks to Cece Hooks' game-winning, "Steal. Drive. Basket!"

(See highlight here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1719776161377... )

Also, kudos to Katie Barker for a career-high 24 PTS off 8 three's, and Taylor Agler for her career-high 12 assists. She doesn't get enough credit, most underrated PG in the MAC.

(See recap here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1720400377981... )

Thanks for the S/O! Don't be a stranger, come say hi to us in press row.
Class? They still have those here?

Hooks' steal and score was great, and she had a very good game. Her future here looks really bright!
Last Edited: 1/26/2018 8:47:54 AM by 100%Cat
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Deciduous Forest Cat
1/26/2018 9:35 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Define arm bar for me, then. To me, dribbling with your off arm extended out as a shield to defenders is an arm bar.
That is, but that is also perfectly legal.
As is over the back.
Not if you gain an advantage by creating contact.
My point is there is no such call as over the back. If you create contact it's pushing or shoving. It's amazing how may fans think that you can't go over someone's back to rebound a ball.
I don't find it all that amazing. Fans have learned it from announcers who say it and referees who at least used to make some unofficial gesture that resembled diving over someone.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a push, though. If you impede the space above another rebounder as he tries to jump, I believe that is the foul on the impeder even though the jumper may seem to have initiated contact.
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jh25
1/26/2018 11:41 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
My apologies 100%Cat, I'm a little late to the party. I haven't been on BA today, there's this thing called "class" that I, for whatever reason, have to attend... Sometimes it gets in the way of interacting with you all! It's a shame, isn't it?

I'd answer your question, but it seems to already be answered above. The arm-bar is a push-off the defender by the offensive player. It was described perfectly above. I have seen it a lot more this year from our girls, mainly from our guards who want to get underneath. I can ask Boldon and company about their thoughts when I see them tomorrow on the bus to Fiami (Fri the 26th).

However, I fear the main thing(s) about last night's game aren't being mentioned here, and it's the outcome of the game. All thanks to Cece Hooks' game-winning, "Steal. Drive. Basket!"

(See highlight here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1719776161377... )

Also, kudos to Katie Barker for a career-high 24 PTS off 8 three's, and Taylor Agler for her career-high 12 assists. She doesn't get enough credit, most underrated PG in the MAC.

(See recap here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1720400377981... )

Thanks for the S/O! Don't be a stranger, come say hi to us in press row.
Class? They still have those here?

Hooks' steal and score was great, and she had a very good game. Her future here looks really bright!
That play locked her up for MAC FotY, 100%. She's gonna be good. The future for Boldon and Co. is bright, but again, they'd love a MAC C'ship now.

Yes, class... It is a thing. There's this thing called "graduation" that I need to achieve? I personally find it staggering that Scripps is forcing me to leave.
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stub
1/26/2018 4:43 PM
jh25 wrote:expand_more
My apologies 100%Cat, I'm a little late to the party. I haven't been on BA today, there's this thing called "class" that I, for whatever reason, have to attend... Sometimes it gets in the way of interacting with you all! It's a shame, isn't it?

I'd answer your question, but it seems to already be answered above. The arm-bar is a push-off the defender by the offensive player. It was described perfectly above. I have seen it a lot more this year from our girls, mainly from our guards who want to get underneath. I can ask Boldon and company about their thoughts when I see them tomorrow on the bus to Fiami (Fri the 26th).

However, I fear the main thing(s) about last night's game aren't being mentioned here, and it's the outcome of the game. All thanks to Cece Hooks' game-winning, "Steal. Drive. Basket!"

(See highlight here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1719776161377... )

Also, kudos to Katie Barker for a career-high 24 PTS off 8 three's, and Taylor Agler for her career-high 12 assists. She doesn't get enough credit, most underrated PG in the MAC.

(See recap here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1720400377981... )

Thanks for the S/O! Don't be a stranger, come say hi to us in press row.
Class? They still have those here?

Hooks' steal and score was great, and she had a very good game. Her future here looks really bright!
That play locked her up for MAC FotY, 100%. She's gonna be good. The future for Boldon and Co. is bright, but again, they'd love a MAC C'ship now.

Yes, class... It is a thing. There's this thing called "graduation" that I need to achieve? I personally find it staggering that Scripps is forcing me to leave.
Agree. These ladies are good and getting better. CeCe is the real deal, so quick and fast. She played only 22 minutes, (way too few IMO)and scored 16 points and had 6! steals. She's Is a decent free throw shooter so I imagine her outside shot will get stronger. One thing Boldon really needs is height and body. We get beat up underneath.

Anybody know if the 6'5" girl from Moscow is a player or a project?
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100%Cat
1/29/2018 10:14 AM
stub wrote:expand_more
My apologies 100%Cat, I'm a little late to the party. I haven't been on BA today, there's this thing called "class" that I, for whatever reason, have to attend... Sometimes it gets in the way of interacting with you all! It's a shame, isn't it?

I'd answer your question, but it seems to already be answered above. The arm-bar is a push-off the defender by the offensive player. It was described perfectly above. I have seen it a lot more this year from our girls, mainly from our guards who want to get underneath. I can ask Boldon and company about their thoughts when I see them tomorrow on the bus to Fiami (Fri the 26th).

However, I fear the main thing(s) about last night's game aren't being mentioned here, and it's the outcome of the game. All thanks to Cece Hooks' game-winning, "Steal. Drive. Basket!"

(See highlight here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1719776161377... )

Also, kudos to Katie Barker for a career-high 24 PTS off 8 three's, and Taylor Agler for her career-high 12 assists. She doesn't get enough credit, most underrated PG in the MAC.

(See recap here ---> https://www.facebook.com/jake.hromada/posts/1720400377981... )

Thanks for the S/O! Don't be a stranger, come say hi to us in press row.
Class? They still have those here?

Hooks' steal and score was great, and she had a very good game. Her future here looks really bright!
That play locked her up for MAC FotY, 100%. She's gonna be good. The future for Boldon and Co. is bright, but again, they'd love a MAC C'ship now.

Yes, class... It is a thing. There's this thing called "graduation" that I need to achieve? I personally find it staggering that Scripps is forcing me to leave.
Agree. These ladies are good and getting better. CeCe is the real deal, so quick and fast. She played only 22 minutes, (way too few IMO)and scored 16 points and had 6! steals. She's Is a decent free throw shooter so I imagine her outside shot will get stronger. One thing Boldon really needs is height and body. We get beat up underneath.

Anybody know if the 6'5" girl from Moscow is a player or a project?
That's one thing I have found interesting about CeCe, she shoots pretty well from the line and her form looks good, but she doesn't really shoot from the outside. Teams play off her a good bit, probably worried about the blow by, but if she develops a decent outside jumper that has to be respected she's going to be scary.
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