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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 24 Thread: Western Michigan
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Recovering Journalist
2/12/2018 8:43 AM
Bobcat1998 wrote:expand_more
IF...and that's a big IF, the players return who are supposed to return and the newcomers do come into town and we have no injuries we really should be MUCH MUCH MUCH improved next year. A starting lineup of Kirk, Dartis, Block, Carter and Taylor would be solid. We would have experience with Gollon and Butler off the bench and two of Gareri, BVP, Springs, McMurray or Murrell would have to be able to give us minutes right?

And the person who said that Carter being around would not have made much of a difference is wrong. We are 3-9 in the MAC with close losses to several teams. I say that while he only averaged 9 ppg and 6 rpg, he dominated in MAC play. Look at the graphic from the Western game from last year. He scored 23 points and had nine boards in that game.
I agree with most of this. Where I differ from the eternal optimists is where "MUCH MUCH MUCH improved" puts us next year. It'll be year five of the regime with all his players and system fully in place. Did we put down the top salary in the MAC to compete for championships or to be a middle of the pack team? From the look of this team and what the rest of this conference is doing, next year's much improved Bobcats will have a hard time being one of the top four seeds. That's good enough for some fans, but not for me.
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GoCats105
2/12/2018 9:31 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
IF...and that's a big IF, the players return who are supposed to return and the newcomers do come into town and we have no injuries we really should be MUCH MUCH MUCH improved next year. A starting lineup of Kirk, Dartis, Block, Carter and Taylor would be solid. We would have experience with Gollon and Butler off the bench and two of Gareri, BVP, Springs, McMurray or Murrell would have to be able to give us minutes right?

And the person who said that Carter being around would not have made much of a difference is wrong. We are 3-9 in the MAC with close losses to several teams. I say that while he only averaged 9 ppg and 6 rpg, he dominated in MAC play. Look at the graphic from the Western game from last year. He scored 23 points and had nine boards in that game.
I agree with most of this. Where I differ from the eternal optimists is where "MUCH MUCH MUCH improved" puts us next year. It'll be year five of the regime with all his players and system fully in place. Did we put down the top salary in the MAC to compete for championships or to be a middle of the pack team? From the look of this team and what the rest of this conference is doing, next year's much improved Bobcats will have a hard time being one of the top four seeds. That's good enough for some fans, but not for me.
They definitely need to improve in all facets, no arguments there. Taking care of the basketball and capitalizing on opportunities have been the biggest hiccups in my eyes this year. We've seen what the program could possibly be like when firing on all cylinders. It's just been very, very few and far between this season.
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100%Cat
2/12/2018 10:13 AM
Feels like every game is a different factor keeping us from winning. We shoot OK Saturday, defend pretty well, but TO's were the back breaker. Another game it's free throw shooting. Another game it's getting pounded on the glass. Another it's outside shooting.
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GoCats105
2/12/2018 10:30 AM
100%Cat wrote:expand_more
Feels like every game is a different factor keeping us from winning. We shoot OK Saturday, defend pretty well, but TO's were the back breaker. Another game it's free throw shooting. Another game it's getting pounded on the glass. Another it's outside shooting.
I mentioned something similar in another thread. It's like trying to plug leaks in the dam.
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GraffZ06
2/12/2018 2:01 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Feels like every game is a different factor keeping us from winning. We shoot OK Saturday, defend pretty well, but TO's were the back breaker. Another game it's free throw shooting. Another game it's getting pounded on the glass. Another it's outside shooting.
I mentioned something similar in another thread. It's like trying to plug leaks in the dam.
That's the definition of a bad team. Teams with one or two obvious issues usually find a way to fix them or compensate for them. The teams with multiple issues that constantly change never figure it out.

It's like the baseball team that just can't hit. And when they do they can't field. But when they do they can't pitch. Final result is a bad team with a bad record.

That's what we are this year.
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bshot44
2/13/2018 9:52 AM
To all the folks who assume that if Carter were participating, this season would be drastically different...

While, yes, I agree Carter would make a difference ... my question is .... Is Ohio really that much worse than Miami without Carter?

Miami ... lost the Weather brothers ... and is playing a nine-man rotation that includes four freshman and one sophomore .... and has a first-year head coach that is a college head coach for the first time in his life.

THAT Miami team is 6-6 in the league and their worst league loss is by 16 at Buffalo and has only one other 10pt loss (vs. EMU) ... and has three road wins in the MAC.

I struggle with that fact Miami has shown infinitely better in the MAC this season than Ohio even with the bad hand dealt to the Bobcats/Saul.

Ohio has 25, 34 and 16 point losses to their "credit" already ... and has one road win in the league (at EMU)

Don't blink ... but Fiami is on the rise while Ohio is ... well, I don't need to say it.
Last Edited: 2/13/2018 9:53:04 AM by bshot44
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OhioCatFan
2/13/2018 10:37 AM
It's not just Carter's injury, it's all the injures together -- Laster's shoulder, Dartis' hip, etc. I certainly believe that if all of these players had been healthy for the entire season, we'd be competing for the MAC Championship. And, what would we have done last year with a healthy Tony?
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GoCats105
2/13/2018 11:20 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
To all the folks who assume that if Carter were participating, this season would be drastically different...

While, yes, I agree Carter would make a difference ... my question is .... Is Ohio really that much worse than Miami without Carter?

Miami ... lost the Weather brothers ... and is playing a nine-man rotation that includes four freshman and one sophomore .... and has a first-year head coach that is a college head coach for the first time in his life.

THAT Miami team is 6-6 in the league and their worst league loss is by 16 at Buffalo and has only one other 10pt loss (vs. EMU) ... and has three road wins in the MAC.

I struggle with that fact Miami has shown infinitely better in the MAC this season than Ohio even with the bad hand dealt to the Bobcats/Saul.

Ohio has 25, 34 and 16 point losses to their "credit" already ... and has one road win in the league (at EMU)

Don't blink ... but Fiami is on the rise while Ohio is ... well, I don't need to say it.
It's hard to deal in hypotheticals when your #1 guy is injured for the season. But based on his play late last year after Tony went down I think we can all agree the team would be better. How much better? Eh, who knows. Just think about the games that "probably" or "could have" gone in the win column for Ohio had Jason Carter been in the lineup.

Clemson 81-76

Iona 93-88

Marshall 99-96

Ball State 75-68

Kent State 70-69

Akron 71-68

Buffalo 73-66

CMU 101-98

WMU 69-60

Obviously, game plans completely change when a guy like that is in the lineup. Does he make this team automatically 9 wins better? Probably not. But it could be 5-7 games better. That amount puts Ohio right in the thick of the MAC race. Still obviously not where we would like to see them, but we're also not talking about scouring the basement of the conference either.
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bshot44
2/13/2018 11:21 AM
I agree ... injuries have played a role the last two years.

But to think Ohio is the worst team in the MAC .... while Miami is more than competitive with 4 freshman and a sophomore AND a 1st-year head coach ... it's just a bad look for the state of the program.

Ohio shouldn't be in total shambles because of a couple injuries.
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Bleed Green & White
2/13/2018 11:52 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
I agree ... injuries have played a role the last two years.

But to think Ohio is the worst team in the MAC .... while Miami is more than competitive with 4 freshman and a sophomore AND a 1st-year head coach ... it's just a bad look for the state of the program.

Ohio shouldn't be in total shambles because of a couple injuries.
It's 6 injuries by my count (my own rank order of impact): Carter, Dartis, Laster, Mickel, Gareri, Vander Plas.

Not to mention last year w/ Campbell & Gollon.

You can't 'next man up' in the front court that many times and be successful, especially with a project like Taylor (remember his knees?).


Don't get me wrong, I'm super frustrated with the play on the court (too many blowouts) and I think Saul and this staff can do a better job with what they have. Without injuries, I like this program a lot as there is some diversity in playing styles and strengths.

You can't go into a lame-duck final year though, and if you let Saul go after this season you're really setting the program up for another few adjustment years. So... give him a 1-2 year extension, no raise and let's see how next year plays out.
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FearLeon
2/13/2018 12:20 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
To all the folks who assume that if Carter were participating, this season would be drastically different...

While, yes, I agree Carter would make a difference ... my question is .... Is Ohio really that much worse than Miami without Carter?

Miami ... lost the Weather brothers ... and is playing a nine-man rotation that includes four freshman and one sophomore .... and has a first-year head coach that is a college head coach for the first time in his life.

THAT Miami team is 6-6 in the league and their worst league loss is by 16 at Buffalo and has only one other 10pt loss (vs. EMU) ... and has three road wins in the MAC.

I struggle with that fact Miami has shown infinitely better in the MAC this season than Ohio even with the bad hand dealt to the Bobcats/Saul.

Ohio has 25, 34 and 16 point losses to their "credit" already ... and has one road win in the league (at EMU)

Don't blink ... but Fiami is on the rise while Ohio is ... well, I don't need to say it.
Careful bshot44.....many folks on here can't handle sharp, accurate analysis of where this program is right now and who is passing us by. But next year, just wait...it's all puppies and rainbows with an injury free team. Some think BVP is the next Dan Majerle.
Last Edited: 2/13/2018 2:03:28 PM by FearLeon
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