...and one made free throw away from the Elite 8...and Ohio now has the worst team in the MAC. Let that sink in. This should never, ever happen at Ohio. #14Months

Both that year, and this year are outliers. #FACTS

Be careful tossing logical thoughts out around here. In my experience, they aren't well accepted. But I agree with you 110%.

I will go ahead and contest everything in the response by OU_Country. The Sweet 16 year was not an "outlier". 49 wins and a MAC regular season championship suggest that our trajectory was on the up. I am not a JC apologist, so the meteoric drop in 14-15 was not all Saul, BUT it does show that this year is also not an outlier. The notorious 10 win 14-15 team had (1) NBA player, (1) G League player, an emotional/aggressive leader in Setty, and a Freshman in Taylor that was clearly going to be special. The team was not cohesive and our coach apparently could not foster an environment that lead to team health (from a mental perspective). That 10 win team makes this year's team look like the University of Rio Grande's JV based on talent and the one constant is Saul.

The statement regarding the current bench is a testimonial on the state of our current leadership. Saul recruited our bench. We have scholarships on that bench that are not given minutes in a 16 point blow-out at BG (!). I am no D-1 basketball coach, but I'd have to assume if you're on scholarship and you're not getting minutes in a game like last night, there might be a problem. The problem was created and should be owned by Saul. He's recruited D-3 talent and tried to squeeze it into our wonderful new Adidas duds. All the while accepting the #1 paycheck in the conference.

Finally, on to the 2011-12 talent. TJ might not have been great but there were games when he did take over and his athletic ability is a foreign concept to our current regime. Jon Smith did quit after the Cleveland loss, and I agree it was a stupid mistake for legacy's sake but his effort and presence has not been replaced since that ill fated decision. Finally regarding Ricardo, the injury happened long after we knew what we had. We had a shut down defender who might take a bad shot and could get to the rim. He was an athlete in an athletic system that recruited ATHLETES.

Lots of excuses and permissive attitudes flying around on this board. If we have a trophy ceremony for our 13 win or less season this year, I guess I will come out of loyalty but I won't agree.

You're right, it's like waiting for Halley's Comet. You spend 75 years waiting for it to return, like it for the 30 seconds you see it, and then spend the next 75 years remembering how cool it was. Sounds like the way to live....in the past. The ultimate outlier. Saul is just supporting an Athens County Cosmical Event.

Makes sense. We should rest on statistical history, not strive to rise above it. We should look that the history of the league and be satisfied waiting our turn. We should NOT collectively conclude that our program has the means to be the outlier within this league, we should be satisfied living out the prophecy of a MAC team. Duh......

I like your facts! Groce won 53% of MAC games. In fact before his final year here he was below 50% in MAC play. Good probability he left because he knew he'd not repeat the Sweet 16 year and saw the big $$$ at Illinois. I too am perplexed by those who crucified Christian. He won 74% of his MAC games here. He's still hanging in there at BC while Groce is back in the MAC.

There's a certain percentage, lately a rather large one, that this applies to. They get all kinds of angry unless things reach the level that THEY deem that the program should be striving for, not what the program itself is striving for. That aren't going to be happy unless the program and the university approach achieving every year what was the best year for the program in the last 20 years. While I agree its great to want to strive to have years like that almost every year, it's not reality. Do what you want if you fall into this category. You're big fans, after all. Fan usually is short for Fanatic, so it's fitting.

I'm saying that based on the past 35 years of Ohio Basketball, that 2012 and 2018 are in fact, outliers. You're arguing, as usual, based on an opinion of what you think would have happened if Groce stayed. Of course it changed everything, but that season, as it stands right now, is an outlier. So is this year.

There are a few things I've noticed over the past few games, the season, and Sauls tenure.

1. Dartis I think is much more hurt than I realized and probably has been all season. I started noticing he didn't have that first step or the ability to run off screens well which had done so well the first two seasons.

2. Laster has probably been severely limited the past few games with a non-shooting shoulder issue. He's got grit and is a senior, but maybe he needs a few games rest.

3. For a guy who recruits "High IQ" guys vs athletes we sure miss a ton of free throws, can't finish at the basket, turn the ball over a lot, and in the 4 years never had a good inbound play.

4. The offense feels like it's predicated on a mesh of the players and everyone being capable of scoring after a swing pass. I think we have a lot of players who are incapable of scoring which is why the offense stagnates.

Kirk has been great and I think Butler will be very good. I think we end up losing one/both to transfer next year which is unfortunate because I like Saul as a person, but probably means he needs to go.

Regarding Dartis, isn't it pretty damn obvious what happened to him this year? It's been said he's been getting physical therapy all week in between games instead of practicing because he has problems with his hips.

While I agree the program has certainly dropped over the past years - Sweet 16 does not mean we were one of the best 16 teams in the country. It means we 1). played well when it counted and 2). had match-ups that favored our team.

He signed his LOI, didn't he?

I have little doubt he would have ended up at Ohio if Groce had stayed.