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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Where is College ball headed?
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allen
2/26/2018 10:05 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Since I work in Finance and I see this stuff every day why not try something out of the box:

Instead of paying the athletes, set up "life after athletics" funds for each of them. A sort of, retirement plan or pension if you will. All NCAA D-I athletes are eligible under a few stipulations. Number one being, if you leave early to go pro, you don't get to participate in the fund anymore and you don't get paid.

I realize this doesn't solve the problem of athletes wanting to be paid "right now," but how many of these athletes are never going to play a sport again? 75%? 80%? 90%? It would be nice to have a cushion to fall on once they get out in the real world.

I like this idea, I like a deferred compensation deal also that with compound interest could keep young adults in school.
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Ohio69
2/27/2018 8:28 AM
I do not like that we may see big changes in rules for the extremely small number of basketball/football athletes who end up with viable pro careers. Not a fan. But, here's some suggestions nonetheless.

1. Small stipends for players. $5K - $10 annually. No more than that. No new strings attached. Just pay them.

2. NCAA required Language in all coaching contracts that the school can immediately void a contract for any NCAA violation (no matter how big or small) and any indication a coach was aware of and did not report potential/alleged NCAA violations. The school gets 120 days to decide if they will void the contract once they are aware of an issue.

3. Waiver of the sit-out-a-year transfer rule for players who are at a program who's coach is fired under #2, but were not a party to the transgressions.

4. States pass and/or enforce malfeasance/ethics violations for any coaches at public institutions.
Last Edited: 2/27/2018 8:29:01 AM by Ohio69
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GoCats105
2/27/2018 8:34 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
I do not like that we may see big changes in rules for the extremely small number of basketball/football athletes who end up with viable pro careers. Not a fan. But, here's some suggestions nonetheless.

1. Small stipends for players. $5K - $10 annually. No more than that. No new strings attached. Just pay them.

2. NCAA required Language in all coaching contracts that the school can immediately void a contract for any NCAA violation (no matter how big or small) and any indication a coach was aware of and did not report potential/alleged NCAA violations. The school gets 120 days to decide if they will void the contract once they are aware of an issue.

3. Waiver of the sit-out-a-year transfer rule for players who are at a program who's coach is fired under #2, but were not a party to the transgressions.

4. States pass and/or enforce malfeasance/ethics violations for any coaches at public institutions.
A version of #3 is happening next year I believe. If a coach leaves for a different job and an athlete wants to transfer, they will not have to sit out the year.
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Kevin Finnegan
2/27/2018 12:41 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
I do not like that we may see big changes in rules for the extremely small number of basketball/football athletes who end up with viable pro careers. Not a fan. But, here's some suggestions nonetheless.

1. Small stipends for players. $5K - $10 annually. No more than that. No new strings attached. Just pay them.

2. NCAA required Language in all coaching contracts that the school can immediately void a contract for any NCAA violation (no matter how big or small) and any indication a coach was aware of and did not report potential/alleged NCAA violations. The school gets 120 days to decide if they will void the contract once they are aware of an issue.

3. Waiver of the sit-out-a-year transfer rule for players who are at a program who's coach is fired under #2, but were not a party to the transgressions.

4. States pass and/or enforce malfeasance/ethics violations for any coaches at public institutions.
A version of #3 is happening next year I believe. If a coach leaves for a different job and an athlete wants to transfer, they will not have to sit out the year.
Really? No strings attached? Can they follow their coach? This could get interesting, and could cause schools to recruit a coach and player in tandem I'd think.
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Ohio69
2/27/2018 12:55 PM
finnOhio wrote:expand_more
I do not like that we may see big changes in rules for the extremely small number of basketball/football athletes who end up with viable pro careers. Not a fan. But, here's some suggestions nonetheless.

1. Small stipends for players. $5K - $10 annually. No more than that. No new strings attached. Just pay them.

2. NCAA required Language in all coaching contracts that the school can immediately void a contract for any NCAA violation (no matter how big or small) and any indication a coach was aware of and did not report potential/alleged NCAA violations. The school gets 120 days to decide if they will void the contract once they are aware of an issue.

3. Waiver of the sit-out-a-year transfer rule for players who are at a program who's coach is fired under #2, but were not a party to the transgressions.

4. States pass and/or enforce malfeasance/ethics violations for any coaches at public institutions.
A version of #3 is happening next year I believe. If a coach leaves for a different job and an athlete wants to transfer, they will not have to sit out the year.
Really? No strings attached? Can they follow their coach? This could get interesting, and could cause schools to recruit a coach and player in tandem I'd think.
Good point. But, yeah, no strings attached. Why punish someone who wants to move one? Also, this is what happens in many other NCAA sports. You can transfer without sitting out. Why is hoops/football different?
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Ohio69
2/27/2018 4:09 PM
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
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GoCats105
2/27/2018 4:38 PM
finnOhio wrote:expand_more
I do not like that we may see big changes in rules for the extremely small number of basketball/football athletes who end up with viable pro careers. Not a fan. But, here's some suggestions nonetheless.

1. Small stipends for players. $5K - $10 annually. No more than that. No new strings attached. Just pay them.

2. NCAA required Language in all coaching contracts that the school can immediately void a contract for any NCAA violation (no matter how big or small) and any indication a coach was aware of and did not report potential/alleged NCAA violations. The school gets 120 days to decide if they will void the contract once they are aware of an issue.

3. Waiver of the sit-out-a-year transfer rule for players who are at a program who's coach is fired under #2, but were not a party to the transgressions.

4. States pass and/or enforce malfeasance/ethics violations for any coaches at public institutions.
A version of #3 is happening next year I believe. If a coach leaves for a different job and an athlete wants to transfer, they will not have to sit out the year.
Really? No strings attached? Can they follow their coach? This could get interesting, and could cause schools to recruit a coach and player in tandem I'd think.
According to this, they would NOT be allowed to follow the coach to their new school.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/proposal-... /

Also, it is not effective yet. I was under the impression this was already ratified but I was mistaken.
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bornacatfan
2/27/2018 10:04 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
I would have a better feel for this if he did not take shoe company money and drove something other than a flashy, expensive Hummer to school each day. Same for jalen Rose after hearing stories he told here in Indiana playing for the Pacers about the money, gifts and things they had at Michigan. 2 of the least likely guys I can think of to talk about the NCAA being corrupt.

Develope the G league. I like that reasoning. Let a kid go pro right out of the box. Let scholar athletes do their thing and let pros go pro. If they fail then they need to get a job
Last Edited: 2/27/2018 10:08:05 PM by bornacatfan
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GroverBall
2/28/2018 12:06 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
I would have a better feel for this if he did not take shoe company money and drove something other than a flashy, expensive Hummer to school each day. Same for jalen Rose after hearing stories he told here in Indiana playing for the Pacers about the money, gifts and things they had at Michigan. 2 of the least likely guys I can think of to talk about the NCAA being corrupt.

Develope the G league. I like that reasoning. Let a kid go pro right out of the box. Let scholar athletes do their thing and let pros go pro. If they fail then they need to get a job
Borna, with all due respect you often call out people for the meaning of their precise words: driving to school "each day." I am not going to claim I know the deal on LeBron and I'm not a LeBron apologist but I remember the hoopla over his car and the reporting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/sports/basketball-lebro...

If reports were accurate the car was not there "each day" but halfway through senior year after he turned 18. If you have more facts about how that car came into his possession then what appeared in mainstream media please share.

http://www2.cincinnati.com/preps/2003/01/28/wwwprep2a28.html

The recent "shut up and dribble" advice Lebron received has me irked and more interested in his career choices, even as a young man, and I think he has handled himself quite well and doesn't deserve the shade you're throwing at him here unless you've got more information than stories you heard at the gym. I also have a great deal of respect for Pop:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/ct-gregg-...
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Maddog13
2/28/2018 12:48 AM
Perhaps, we should just acknowledge that college basketball is a business, and thus do what other professional sports leagues do: have a draft! That's right, all 346 teams will participate in a lottery every year. I propose that 346 team names get placed in a hat, and each team gets a pick until all the colleges have been exhausted. Once that happens, the hat gets filled up again, and the lottery continues. If a player wants to play NCAA college ball, they have to go with the team that picks them. This should even the playing field, and thus take recruiting out of the hands of the coaches, so there is no corruption. Can you imagine how fun this could be? Perhaps, then, and only then, would we find out which coach can really coach. Suddenly, college basketball might be fun again.
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allen
2/28/2018 7:53 AM
GroverBall wrote:expand_more
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
I would have a better feel for this if he did not take shoe company money and drove something other than a flashy, expensive Hummer to school each day. Same for jalen Rose after hearing stories he told here in Indiana playing for the Pacers about the money, gifts and things they had at Michigan. 2 of the least likely guys I can think of to talk about the NCAA being corrupt.

Develope the G league. I like that reasoning. Let a kid go pro right out of the box. Let scholar athletes do their thing and let pros go pro. If they fail then they need to get a job
Borna, with all due respect you often call out people for the meaning of their precise words: driving to school "each day." I am not going to claim I know the deal on LeBron and I'm not a LeBron apologist but I remember the hoopla over his car and the reporting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/14/sports/basketball-lebro...

If reports were accurate the car was not there "each day" but halfway through senior year after he turned 18. If you have more facts about how that car came into his possession then what appeared in mainstream media please share.

http://www2.cincinnati.com/preps/2003/01/28/wwwprep2a28.html

The recent "shut up and dribble" advice Lebron received has me irked and more interested in his career choices, even as a young man, and I think he has handled himself quite well and doesn't deserve the shade you're throwing at him here unless you've got more information than stories you heard at the gym. I also have a great deal of respect for Pop:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/ct-gregg-...

He did not drive a hummer until it was known that he would declare for the the draft. His mother took out a loan based on his future earning potential. I knew the guy who helped him get the car. They tried to get him to take a bigger loan. Lebron was very good friends with a former OU student named AZ Patterson. He was initially suspended and then the suspension was rescended. Look up the term hard money loan, you will learn something new. Trump defaulted on all the bonds that he issued so he could not obtain regular financing and he had to take out hard money loans. If the president can take a hard money loan, so can Lebron James. He also turned down a ten million dollar deal in high school. Sometime people wing it to win a debate. They cannot be corrected. Lebron has pledged to give $85 million in scholarships to underprivileged youths. He helped negotiate higher pension for former NBA players. He has plugged in all of his friends and they are all rich, whether they work for LRMR, Klutch or Nike. We have to stop spreading false information. Lebron's former step dad did allegedly take out a loan and he went to jail for appraisal fraud. Stop winging it. http://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-turned-down-r...
Last Edited: 2/28/2018 8:23:03 AM by allen
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/28/2018 9:10 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
I would have a better feel for this if he did not take shoe company money and drove something other than a flashy, expensive Hummer to school each day. Same for jalen Rose after hearing stories he told here in Indiana playing for the Pacers about the money, gifts and things they had at Michigan. 2 of the least likely guys I can think of to talk about the NCAA being corrupt.

Develope the G league. I like that reasoning. Let a kid go pro right out of the box. Let scholar athletes do their thing and let pros go pro. If they fail then they need to get a job
What does LeBron driving an expensive car have to do with the NCAA? He was never going to school and everybody knew it. He took out loans based on his future earnings and got himself a car. Pretty sure he's been able to pay it off. There's nothing corrupt about that and the NCAA involved in any way.
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Ohio69
2/28/2018 9:26 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
I would have a better feel for this if he did not take shoe company money and drove something other than a flashy, expensive Hummer to school each day. Same for jalen Rose after hearing stories he told here in Indiana playing for the Pacers about the money, gifts and things they had at Michigan. 2 of the least likely guys I can think of to talk about the NCAA being corrupt.

Develope the G league. I like that reasoning. Let a kid go pro right out of the box. Let scholar athletes do their thing and let pros go pro. If they fail then they need to get a job
Maybe Lebron and Jalen are pirates. Screw your rules. I'm dirt broke. I've got a way to get money that doesn't involve a street gang. I'm taking it.

The NBA needs more blame. Using the NCAA as a minor league is causing huge issues for the NCAA. So, I'm with you on the G League. The thing is, what's in it for the NBA? Why would an NBA owner spend more money on the G League when he's getting that for free from Kentucky, Duke, Carolina, and Kansas? Maybe the NBA needs to visit with the Euro futbol leagues and start that model. Find and pay and develop kids at a very young age? (I'd add major league baseball to that but they have weird draft rules as well.)
Last Edited: 2/28/2018 9:28:13 AM by Ohio69
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OUVan
2/28/2018 2:20 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
However, paying athletes could incur more issues/trouble that we currently see now. Is there a flat pay scale -- between schools and between sports? What's to stop the problems happening now (paying under the table to recruit) even if there's a salary system in place?
Don't forget that any kind of system would have to take Title IX into account. And never mind that the vast majority of colleges don't make money off of basketball and football.

As for the big picture, I've been a huge college basketball fan my entire life but it's starting to lose me with the blatant efforts by the big boys to un-level the playing field. I'm to the point where I wouldn't be crushed if the top 6 or 8 conference broke off into their own separate entity and remove the charade that we aren't already playing a different game. I know that's not a popular opinion but with every passing year the MAC and other mids move further and further away from equal footing. This might be there year where zero mids get at-large bids.

I'm to the point where I'm enjoying watching high school basketball more than college. I go to a couple of games a week with some of the dads of my son's AAU team teammates.
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GoCats105
2/28/2018 4:49 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
King James chimes in. Did faily well I think. Glad he doesn't just shut up and dribble:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22596036/lebron-james-...
I would have a better feel for this if he did not take shoe company money and drove something other than a flashy, expensive Hummer to school each day. Same for jalen Rose after hearing stories he told here in Indiana playing for the Pacers about the money, gifts and things they had at Michigan. 2 of the least likely guys I can think of to talk about the NCAA being corrupt.

Develope the G league. I like that reasoning. Let a kid go pro right out of the box. Let scholar athletes do their thing and let pros go pro. If they fail then they need to get a job
What does LeBron driving an expensive car have to do with the NCAA? He was never going to school and everybody knew it. He took out loans based on his future earnings and got himself a car. Pretty sure he's been able to pay it off. There's nothing corrupt about that and the NCAA involved in any way.
Correct. At the time I don't remember hearing anything about it from the NCAA. It was the OHSAA which had a problem, but not for the Hummer. It was because someone gave him some free retro NBA jerszes or some other crap. The Hummer raised an eyebrow, mostly because people didn't understand how his mother could secure the loan. Pretty sure the bank saw LeBron's potential and thought, "yeah this guy is gonna be fine."
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allen
3/2/2018 2:03 AM
Wow, Australia is not playing around. http://accentricaccents.com/2018/03/02/australian-basketb... /
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OhioCatFan
3/2/2018 10:43 AM
allen, I hope this trend continues. The more we can keep the one-and-doners out of college ball -- where the vast majority don't belong as they, in the immortal words of a former O$U QB, "ain't come here to play no school" -- the better, IMHO. Let's keep college athletics for those who at least aspire to a college education and degree.
Last Edited: 3/2/2018 10:44:52 AM by OhioCatFan
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allen
3/2/2018 7:28 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
allen, I hope this trend continues. The more we can keep the one-and-doners out of college ball -- where the vast majority don't belong as they, in the immortal words of a former O$U QB, "ain't come here to play no school" -- the better, IMHO. Let's keep college athletics for those who at least aspire to a college education and degree.
I agree with you. The top 50 can go, we do have to find away to keep 50-250. If we can keep them and have great competition, that would be great. We should improve the stipend, but we should not cater to the one and dones.
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